Jackpot City speaks exclusively to Tyron Woodley - "I would have beaten Khabib and Islam in my prime, I’m a way more skilled wrestler than Khamzat Chimaev, and I am Jake Paul’s best MMA debut opponent"
Speaking to Jackpot City Casino, former UFC champion Tyron Woodley previews the upcoming title fight between Ian Garry and Islam Makhachev and calls on Jake Paul to face him in his MMA debut.
Q. You’re facing Khamzat Chimaev, this “monster” people talk about. You’ve said yourself you haven’t won since Darren Till, so what do you make of this matchmaking?
He’s a monster to who? Is he a monster to an NCAA All-American? Is he a monster to a world champion wrestler? Is he a monster to somebody that’s been on an Olympic ladder? He’s a monster to MMA fighters that don’t have a wrestling background. He’s a monster to somebody that’s a striker, where he’s coming forward storming. He’s a monster to the general public fans that don’t know wrestling.
Khamzat Chimaev is a phenomenal wrestler. It is a very tough task for me. But when you think about the years I've been wrestling, what I’ve been up against and what he’s been up against, at best it’s even. There’s no way in hell he’s no monster over me.
Q. Do you think he’s been overhyped by the media?
I think he is a monster. But it’s not like he’s Goliath and I’m David. Even if he was, I still like my chances, because I got many, many repetitions in knocking down Goliath.
At best, it’s even. Skill-wise, I’m way, way more skilled. I’m way slicker, I’m way faster. I’m a way more skilled wrestler than he is. I watched a couple videos of his, and I’m not saying it’s in the bag, but in two weeks of training we’ve already come up with many solutions for his style, many solutions for his attack.
Also, there’s no video of me ever doing them, because I just learned them. Think about my UFC career. How many times did you even see me wrestle anybody? You didn’t. So he has limited footage on even being able to get ready for me. I’ve got a lot of footage to get ready for him.
He’s already shown in MMA fights that he’s going to lean more towards his wrestling than anything, and he’s also shown that when it gets hard, he can give up a little bit. Because there’s no f***ing way I’ll ever let Strickland beat me. Hell no. Not in a million years.
Q. So you do think Khamzat is a monster, but not world-class?
I think he is a monster, but I don’t think he’s world-class. He is a monster. He is the smashing machine. I will agree with you, he is a monster. I told somebody jokingly, “I’m wrestling a bear.” This matchup wouldn’t be compelling if it wasn’t that. But think about “The Gorilla”, think about “The Natural Born Killer”, think about “The Ruthless One”. They all were quote-unquote monsters.
Q. Khamzat had an aura around him. Do you think when Strickland beat him, and with the fatigue towards the end of that fight, he lost some of that invincibility?
He never had the invincibility. Conor was invincible until he fought some wrestlers. He was invincible when he fought a wrestler who had a few moments to get ready in Chad Mendes. Chad Mendes with a full training camp, that fight against Conor wouldn’t have looked like it looked. He got tired and gassed. He didn’t have proper preparation.
Dustin Poirier didn’t think Conor was a boogeyman. Neither did Khabib. I never thought Robbie was a boogeyman. Think about the aura. Who had more aura? Robbie Lawler was fighter of the year back-to-back and everybody was scared of him. Nobody wanted to fight Carlos Condit when I fought him. Martin said to me, “It’s almost impossible to finish him. Nobody wants to fight him. What’s your game plan?” I said, “Don’t you ever disrespect me and tell me somebody is not able to be finished.” And what happened? I finished him.
So Khamzat has aura. I’m a fan of his. He’s strong, he’s a great wrestler, he’s a great fighter, he’s got a lot of dominance, he’s got a lot of confidence. But some people are really good at being a hammer, and those same people aren’t good at being a nail. He’s going to get a chance to be a nail for the first time.
Q. You’re facing Joaquin Buckley two weeks beforehand. Are you contractually committed to Moscow regardless of what happens?
Will I wrestle Khamzat regardless of what happens against Buckley? After I’ve sat here and done these goddamn visas, mailed my old passport overnight, filled out these forms and done all this stuff, we’re wrestling, goddamn.
I used to wrestle three or four times in one day, sometimes five. In wrestling, we wrestled every single week, three or four times a week, for months at a time. At the Big 12 Championship, if I wrestled somebody and won the conference against somebody from Nebraska, Iowa State, Oklahoma or Oklahoma State, the next week I may have to wrestle somebody from Iowa, Lehigh or Penn State. So me wrestling Buckley, and then two whole weeks later wrestling somebody else, it’s not a big deal. I could wrestle somebody every week.
Q. It is unconventional matchmaking, though, isn’t it?
The Khamzat offer came out of the blue. They called me and said, “We haven’t offered this fight to anybody else, but we’re going to shop it around. What do you think about going to Russia to fight Khamzat?” The first thing I thought in my mind was yes. The second thing I thought was, “I never say yes.” So I said, “I’m interested. Let me sleep on it.” I already knew it was yes before I even got off the phone.
Then I texted him back and said, “Don’t offer this fight to anybody else. Let me give it some thought before you offer it.” Because I didn’t want him to start getting on the phone and get somebody who was willing to do it for less money.
I said, “Let’s not do the high-low, you go high, I go low. This is what you’re going to pay me. This is what I’m worth. This is why you want me to fight.” I’ve got a huge fan base in Russia. Huge. Out of my almost two million followers, 92% are men and 40% of the 92 are from Russia. I did that show with Luke Rockhold in Dubai, all those Russian fans are my fans now.
Q. If there was a rematch, UFC title fight, five rounds, would you lean towards Strickland or Khamzat?
I feel like Khamzat could beat Strickland in a rematch. There’s a very distinct way to win that fight and it’s a small adjustment. So I think Khamzat is smart enough to make that adjustment. Don’t get it twisted, I’m not hating on Strickland. Strickland can win any fight. Strickland is like Forrest Griffin back in the day. You didn’t think he could beat no Rampage, but he thought he could. There’s a difference between thinking you can and believing you can. Guys that believe they can do it put themselves in a different category.
Q. Colby Covington is fighting Belal Muhammad in RAF. Do you lean a certain way in that matchup?
I’m buddies with Belal, I can’t stand Colby. Colby is strong. He has natural cardio. He’s a bum, he don’t work out hard, but he does have naturally good cardio. I used to bring Colby into training camps and just torture him. Badly. Torture Colby, and he never got tired, though. He would always do the bare minimum. If you ask anybody who’s been around him and trained with him, you know it’s always that one guy that doesn’t have to do as much as everybody else. But he’s just got a tank on him.
Colby has a lot of strong static strength. He has a great gas tank. He can wrestle, he’s got a good single leg, good positioning, good defence. Belal is kind of like what I said Strickland is. He’ll cling to you, he’ll keep coming, he’ll keep going forward. On a guy like Colby, Colby’s not going to get tired like Khamzat did. He’s not. So now it’ll come down to experience and skills. I think it’s going to be a very competitive match.
If Belal, it depends on his game plan. I know he’s probably going to be training with Izzy Martinez for this. Izzy Martinez is a great coach and he has great tactics, and I feel like he’ll have him prepared to go against Colby. But I do think it’s an even match.
Q. With MVP and PFL done, and that partnership opening the door to a Jake Paul MMA fight, who is the right opponent for Jake Paul’s MMA debut?
I feel like I would be the best fight for Jake Paul’s MMA debut, because after our fights is when the credibility came. I feel like it was that match. Also, I’m the one with the most credentials and credibility. Every single time Jake goes out there and competes, I feel like he’s trying his best to break records and fight matches that are really risky, where he may be the underdog, and he thrives well in those moments.
Tommy Fury is not an MMA fight, but I can see him doing that match. That was a fight he lost that most surprised everyone, because Tommy didn’t have the X factor, the KO power and things like that. So I think me.
But it really depends on what Jake wants to do, who he wants to fight. They do a lot of things where you’re like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe that happened.” They’ve got a lot of those types of matches, so they may find a match like that.
Mike Perry, he’s been talking about going against him and stuff like that. Mike Perry is really a striker, though, so it’s almost like doing a striking match in MMA. With me, you have to go against somebody that can kick, punch, elbow, wrestle, defend, do jiu-jitsu, box, and really just has the good IQ of how to fight the MMA fight. Cage work, clinch work, defence. I feel like I’m more well-rounded.
Q. How far are PFL away from being a legitimate threat to UFC?
MVP was really a lifeline for the PFL, to be honest. PFL had a great structure in the way they did things, but they didn’t have a lot of stars and a lot of names. When you add Jake to that equation, it’s adding a bit of clout to it. You know how clout works. When you add some clout to a system, now you get more people backing it and more people watching it. I think he’s going to put more eyeballs on the PFL.
But no MMA promotion can live with the UFC. Tell me the league that’s a threat to the NFL. That’s what UFC is. There’s not going to be a league to compete. There are going to be some respectable leagues. There are going to be some good options for fighters. But no league is going to start threatening to compete with the UFC. They’ve been doing it too well, too long.
Q. Islam Makhachev versus Ian Garry is coming up. Ian is a striker, Islam wants to take the fight to the ground. What normally happens when a striker meets an elite grappler, and where does Islam sit among great welterweights?
Islam would have survived in my era. He wouldn’t have been the champion in my era. You’ve got to think about it. Would Islam beat Robbie? Would Islam beat me? Would Islam beat Georges St-Pierre? Even after that, there are a couple of other guys I think would give Islam problems. Even Matt Brown. He’s an elbow machine, so Islam would want to get close to him and try to clinch him, and that may not be the best thing against somebody like that.
But the thing about these wrestlers, these Russian wrestlers, and really these Dagestani wrestlers connected to Khabib, is Khabib has really set the bar of what discipline brings you. What kind of lifestyle it can bring you, what kind of respect it brings you, and how if you stay disciplined and focused, you can walk away from the sport. He’s a poster boy for that.
Makhachev was more disciplined than I was. More disciplined than anybody that’s got some other stuff that can take their mind off the prize. He’s going to be more disciplined than them, and you’ve got to give that attribute a check mark.
Q. Ian Garry says he is going to force Islam Makhachev into a mistake and take the opportunity, probably on the feet. Islam is going to want to take him down. In that clash of styles, what is the deciding factor?
I know Islam Makhachev is going to stay with the game plan. He’s not worried about proving anything like, “I can strike too.” He’s going to take the path of least resistance. He’s going to do what’s going to secure him the victory to continue to remain with his record intact. He’s going to wrestle him.
Ian Garry, most likely, is not going to be able to build skills in three months that are going to be enough to stop something Islam has been doing his whole life. So that’s not good.
Now, whether Ian continues to get up, escape and get away after he’s taken down, whether he can create space to throw strikes before he gets taken down, that’s a different thing. But he is going to get taken down. That’s what Islam is going to do.
Islam is not going to abort his wrestling, his pressure and his dominance to engage in a striking battle so everybody can quit saying he’s just a wrestler. He’s going to wrestle. He’s smart enough not to let the ego get in play and take away his ability to get this win.
Q. Would prime Tyron Woodley have beaten Islam Makhachev and Ian Garry?
Ian Garry is not even in the conversation, to be honest, because I can fight him while I’m wrestling. And I would fight him. I wouldn’t wrestle him. If I didn’t wrestle Robbie, and I didn’t wrestle Wonderboy, I’m not going to wrestle him. So I can beat him at his aspect without using the wrestling component.
Islam Makhachev, during my prime, I would have beat him. I’m not going to say I would have smoked him, or it would have been a landslide. In my heyday, I think I would have beat him. I’m not going to say I would have killed him, but I think I would have beat him.
I think I would have beat Khabib in my prime as well. What was he going to do, wrestle me and take me down? I had the highest takedown defence in the history of the sport. So I feel like I would have beat him in that prime, and Makhachev is a lesser version of Khabib. Just a little better striking, but Khabib was more dominant.
But Khabib also was more focused than me. I lost focus quite a bit more times than he did. That would be the focus of those guys. Not the wrestling, not the pressure, not the power, not whatever. It would be the focus of them, and their decision-making process year-round to keep them in the pocket, keep them in position. I just knew off-season I was living my life, and I feel like that’s where they would have had the advantage against me.
Q. How would a fantasy fight between Makhachev and GSP go?
I messaged GSP the other day and said what’s up to him. I was like, “You know what? I want to train with you. I’m not going to fight you now. Let’s train.” And he didn’t reply back. I’m like, what’s going on? What’s up? I thought we were cooler than that. He could be busy, he could be tied up, he may not know what angle I’m coming from, because I did also offer him to fight me in the Middle East in that promotion. So I can start thinking it could mean, “Oh, he don’t like me,” or he doesn’t want to train with me, or he doesn’t want to train with me because I might rough him up a little bit. He doesn’t want to train with me because he thinks I might be trying to get him to fight me. Or he might be interested in fighting me and doesn’t want to let me see how he trains and get inside info on him. Or he may not know my angle on why all of a sudden I want to train with him.
Q. What is the angle? Do you want help before Khamzat, or is it more a respect thing?
I’ve always wanted to train with the guys I admired and respected when I got closer to walking away. If there are some guys right now that I know for sure I’m not going to fight, and he told me he was done with the sport, then he’s on the list.
Q. Should Conor McGregor retire, or should he take the final fight on his UFC contract?
I don’t ever tell a fighter when to walk away. Even if I feel like they’re getting beat up and hurt, a lot of people thought Tony Ferguson should have walked away, and he sprung out a couple of wins after that.
It’s a fighter’s choice. His parents, his kids, his wife, his coaches, people that are way closer to him than us, they can input on that kind of comment. But it’s really up to him whether he’s going to walk away or not.
Q. You mentioned it earlier, but Darren Till and Yoel Romero, which way do you see that going?
Man, it’s hard to ever go against Yoel. God damn. You know what? Yoel would whip my ass, I ain’t going to lie. I ain’t going to lie, that’s one dude I can just be real with.
It’s not even that, yeah, he’s strong, he’s dominant, but his IQ is just so crazy. He does things so effortlessly. His defence, the way he took people down. It’s kind of like Cael Sanderson when he wrestled. He never was like, it was just smooth and flowing. That’s the way Yoel is.
His body looks amazing for his age. He’s always competing in all these different formats of fighting, and he’s just a scary dude. Mentally, he’s very special. I think if he spoke more fluent English and was more vocal about what’s in his head, and how he prepares and how he thinks about the sport, I’d be very interested in the way he approached the sport from a mental standpoint, because I’m very impressed with him.
Darren Till is looking real good recently, especially in the boxing. The striking is kind of his base, he’s strong, and he’s kind of like, “I don’t give a f***.” I like the matchup. I didn’t see this matchup coming, and I’m excited to see what the heck they’re doing.
Q. Arman Tsarukyan is fighting Mauricio Ruffy after Charles Oliveira’s friend Alan Nascimento passed away. Which way do you see that going?
I like Ruffy. He’s funny to me. He’ll be like, “I need the bonus, I need the money.” He’s kind of funny. He’s tough, too. I think it’s a good match. I’m impressed with Arman’s ability to just stay after it, stay cooking, and stay doing these different competitions. I’m riding with Arman. Also, a lot of people are always acting like he’s just this entitled person that came from money, maybe he has got something to prove. Like, “Yeah, I may have come from that, but I did this myself. I work hard. I put my time in. It doesn’t matter. I can’t help where I came from. I’m going out here and I’m training. I don’t train any less because I don’t need this money to pay my bills. I love this, and I want to compete, and I want to challenge myself.” I respect that from him.
Q. Reports have said the UFC lost $30million staging a fight at the White House, but there was earned media and upside as well. What do you make of the UFC losing that kind of money?
I mean, $30million for the UFC is a little butt hair. A centimetre butt hair. I think it was more of an investment. It’s more of an investment in branding how important MMA is to the world, how we should be a sport right underneath soccer or football. I think it was more of an investment on marketing MMA as a powerhouse, homegrown, worldwide, international sport that people that didn’t know about it should get to know about it, and less about making the money. So I don’t think they focused on making the money.